ietf-asrg
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Re: [Asrg] Spooked mail addresses

2004-02-09 10:27:41
"Alan DeKok" <aland(_at_)ox(_dot_)org> wrote:
Seth Breidbart <sethb(_at_)panix(_dot_)com> wrote:
 So such messages are *indistinguishable* from spam.
Only if you have a rather weak distinguisher.  There are a lot of ways
to distinguish this message from spam,

 During the SMTP phase, before the message body is received?  Nope.

So you're looking for a way to distinguish spam from non-spam prior to
receiving the message?  It can't be done.  Period.

Proof:

1. Your mother signs up for an AOL account.  Using that account, going
   through AOL's mailserver, she sends you email.  Non-spam.

2. A spammer signs up for an AOL account.  Using that account, going
   through AOL's mailserver, she sends you email.  Spam.

If I use my own email address then it isn't forgery, period.

 You appear to be completely missing the point of my entire
argument.  *You* believe that such messages aren't spam, but you're
the originator.

Do you know the difference between "spam" and "forgery"?  I didn't say
that somebody using his own address makes the message non-spam, I said
it makes it non-forged.

 As the recipient *I* don't know that such forged messages aren't
spam.

*You* apparently don't even know that such non-forged messages aren't
forged.

 Once again, how does my recipient MTA know this?  All you're talking
about is general concepts "of course you should trust the NYT".
OK... why?  How?  How do I express that trust, or enforce it in my
MTA?  so far, you've ignored that topic entirely.

How do you trust _any other_ sender?

 My business model is that I don't want to deal with people who forge
messages.

You apparently don't want to deal with people who use their own email
addresses through sending MTAs you haven't blessed.  That's fine with
me.

 Should I be forced to accept such forged messages from the NY times?

Of course not.  You shouldn't be _forced_ to accept any message, for
any reason or no reason.  Remember, I'm the person whose home computer
will not accept email from any IP address that's a prime number.  My
toys, my rules.

 If the answer is "no", then the NY times (and anyone else) must jump
through MY hoops in order to talk to me.  My MTA, my business model,
my rules.  If they don't like it, they don't have to talk to me.

That's right.  All that I'm objecting to is your _mischaracterizing_
what is being done as "forgery".

Seth

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