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RE: IPR Disclosure for Sender-ID

2004-08-03 16:53:32

As you know, Sender ID is the result of a merger of various elements of
SPF and Microsoft's Caller ID for E-mail proposal.  Microsoft has filed
the IPR disclosure for Caller ID, and we will file a disclosure as soon
as we reasonably can - very shortly - for that portion of Sender ID
where Microsoft still has IPR to contribute, namely
draft-ietf-marid-core-02. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Newton [mailto:andy(_at_)hxr(_dot_)us] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 3:53 AM
To: John Glube
Cc: Harry Katz; 'Ted Hardie'; 'Mark Lentczner'; IETF MARID WG
Subject: Re: IPR Disclosure for Sender-ID

John,

I have received no additional information regarding IPR for Sender-ID.

I do note the following:
   o Reading the "Status of this Memo" section of 
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-marid-core-02.t
xt, there is a statement that all IPR has been submitted.
   o The text of
http://www.ietf.org/ietf/IPR/microsoft-ipr-draft-atkinson-callerid.txt
(which, incidentally, cites draft-ietf-simple-iscomposing-00) 
is titled "Microsoft's Statement about IPR Claimed in 
draft-atkinson-callerid"
   o The title of the draft
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-atkinson-callerid-00
.txt is "Caller ID for E-mail".
   o Section 3.2 of draft-atkinson-callerid-00.txt and 
Section 4 of draft-ietf-marid-core-02.txt discuss the same 
process for determining a "responsible" domain though the 
wording is not identical.
   o The title of draft-ietf-marid-core-02.txt is "Sender ID: 
Authenticating E-Mail".
   o The following web page is cited in the Caller ID IPR 
claim as containing a license to implement: 
http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/twc/privacy/spam_senderid.mspx
   o The above web page is titled "Sender ID" and contains a 
link to "Caller ID for E-Mail Implementation License".

Based on this, I can see how a person could reasonably assume 
that the patent claim for draft-atkinson-callerid-00.txt also 
covers draft-ietf-marid-core-02.txt.

This topic is still on the agenda for the 4 August meeting.  
The deadline of 2 August was given so that participants could 
have time to read any additional material before the meeting.

-andy


On Aug 3, 2004, at 4:25 AM, John Glube wrote:

Andy,

Having completed a search of the IETF's IPR notices it 
seems the only 
filing by Microsoft to date is:

http://www.ietf.org/ietf/IPR/microsoft-ipr-draft-atkinson-calleri
d.txt

This was filed on May 28, 2004 and concerns 
draft-aktinson-caller-id.

From the Sender-ID Schedule posted on 19.07.2004:

"Aug. 2 - Deadline to have all IPR information to the MARID working 
group mailing list. This includes patent claims, licensing 
information, and trademark issues."

http://www.imc.org/ietf-mxcomp/mail-archive/msg02749.html

With no filings being made and nothing being posted to the mailing 
list, further to the comments of Ted Hardie on
19.07.04 regarding the license issue:

http://www.imc.org/ietf-mxcomp/mail-archive/msg02748.html

I request guidance.

* What is the present relevance if any of the filing by 
Microsoft on 
May 28, 2004 to draft-ietf-marid-core-02.txt titled "Sender ID: 
Authenticating E-Mail" filed in July and found at:

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-marid-core-02.txt

May this WG proceed forward on the basis that:

* MS has not abandoned its original position?

I ask this question as the MS web page dealing with Sender ID 
continues to state:

"If you are a software developer and are interested in implementing 
this specification in software, please review the terms of 
the Caller 
ID for E-Mail Implementation License before you begin, as 
the patent 
license discusses the rights that Microsoft would grant you or your 
organization."

http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/twc/privacy/spam_senderid.mspx

On 18.07.04, Henry Katz wrote:

"Thanks Bryce.  I am drafting an FAQ to answer the 
questions that have 
been raised.  As I'm sure you can appreciate, this needs review and 
approval by attorneys (plural) and other folk here.  I hope 
to be able 
to publish this FAQ to the list within the next few days.

I understand and appreciate the questions people have been asking.  
Let me just say at this point that our intent is to 
contribute our IP 
to this working group and to encourage widespread 
implementation and 
adoption.  I very much appreciate everyone's patience while 
I gather 
the answers to your questions."

http://www.imc.org/ietf-mxcomp/mail-archive/msg02737.html

* MS is not making an IPR claim concerning Sender-ID and therefore 
software developers who are interested in implementing the 
Sender-ID 
specification have no need to seek a license from MS?

I ask this question as:

* there has been no filing by Microsoft concerning 
draft-ietf-marid-core-02.txt

* nothing was posted to the list on August 2, 2004;

* the following comment by Mark Lentczner on July 30, 2004 when he 
wrote in part:

"The current form of the PRA algorithm (in core-02) is neither 
heuristic nor proprietary nor arcane: It is a direct 
embodiment of the 
2822 concept of the mailbox that sent or resent the message.  The 
priorities and orderings of the headers checked is follow directly 
from the 2822 definition of the headers.  I'm sure the 
description in 
core-02 could be more clear in this regard."

http://www.imc.org/ietf-mxcomp/mail-archive/msg02927.html

I appreciate your time in this matter and await your guidance.

John

P.S. There is a sense of urgency. MS announced on 22.07.04 it will 
begin testing Sender-ID on 01.10.04 on the MSN and Hotmail 
domains. MS 
is urging other ISPs to follow suit. Time is beginning to 
run out for 
this deadline.

The IPR issue was placed on the WG Agenda for August 4.
In anticipation, on 19.07.04 the WG asked for a posting by 
02.08.04. 
The time line has lapsed.

cc. Ted, Harry, Mark and the IETF Marid Mailing List

John Glube
Toronto, Canada

The FTC Calls For Sender Authentication 
http://www.learnsteps4profit.com/dne.html



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