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RE: SOAP and OCP

2003-04-21 18:10:53
ALex,
See inline
Abbie

-----Original Message-----
From: Alex Rousskov [mailto:rousskov(_at_)measurement-factory(_dot_)com] 
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2003 1:45 PM
To: ietf-openproxy(_at_)imc(_dot_)org
Subject: RE: SOAP and OCP



On Mon, 21 Apr 2003, Abbie Barbir wrote:

Try w3c (SOAP 1.2)
http://www.xml.org 
http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2003/02/26/binaryxml.html
http://www.w3.org/TR/soap12-af/

OK. So it looks like we have at least two choices when it 
comes to transmitting opaque data over SOAP. First, we can 
base64-encode it. The "binaryxml.html" document argues that 
encoding is the right way to go because it lets us stay 
within XML boundaries. On the other hand, encoding is 
expensive (CPU and bandwidth wise). The second option is to 
use MIME-like "attachments".


Yes, true, this is why I said that there are ways of doing it.
SO Agree.

The worst part is that there is no "standard" way to transmit 
opaque data over SOAP yet. Implementations use different 
approaches and may not be compatible. Please correct me if I am wrong.


Agree

OCP is about exchanging opaque data and metadata. XML does 
not support opaque data well. That is why SOAP does not 
support opaque data well. From this point of view, SOAP is 
the wrong protocol to base OCP on -- the primary OCP function 
is not well supported.  Other factors may be more important though.

If OCP is built on top of SOAP, do you expect any
existing web services to be able to act as callout 
servers "as is", 
without _any_ modifications? Or do you expect modification of 
existing services to support OCP-over-SOAP to be "easier" than 
similar modification to support OCP-over-notSOAP?


Yes, web services uses SOAP and this will allow OPES to be plugged 
into that area (as opposed to be a competitor). The short 
answere to 
your question about modifications is Yes. By definition a 
web services 
once discovered and its description is obatianed is immediatly 
interoperable. On the otherhand, a schema of OCP can be 
written that 
could be used by the web services server that he will use 
to become an 
OPES Callout server.

I am not sure I understand the answer. What does it mean to 
be "immediatly interoperable by definition"? My understanding 
is that any existing web service can already participate in 
an OPES system "as is" as long as the OPES processor using 
the service supports SOAP. However, such participation is 
outside of OCP scope because OCP is not SOAP; OCP is a 
stand-alone protocol that has features not described in SOAP 
specs. To support OCP, a web service must be modified.


True, that is what I mean. 

In other words, SOAP may be used as an OPES callout protocol 
(from architectural point of view). However, the protocol we 
are working on (OCP), is not identical to SOAP (but can be 
implemented on top of SOAP). Modifications would be required 
for existing web services to support OCP.


very true

Is my understanding correct? If it is, we may have a good compromise
available: treat both OCP and SOAP as possible callout 
protocols and make sure that OPES framework is not OCP- or 
SOAP-specific.  OPES implementations will use the most 
appropriate protocol for their needs.

Comments?

Alex.

I would love that.

abbie
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