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Re: The utilitiy of IP is at stake here

2003-06-01 14:19:09
On zaterdag, mei 31, 2003, at 17:32 Europe/Amsterdam, Paul Hoffman / IMC wrote:

To bludgeon the point a bit:

- Big ISPs and other mail service providers know how much spam is costing them.

Ah, but how much does spam earn them? I assume spammers pay for their bandwidth. Then there are all the anti-spam products. I'm not accusing anyone here, but if we're going to run the numbers we have to run ALL the numbers.

- For some ISPs, the amount is in the millions of dollars.

If you have an 8 digit customer base pretty much any per-customer action is going to cost you millions. In and of itself that doesn't meany anything. A few years ago doing public key crypto for each incoming message would have been impossible, or at least more expensive than dealing with spam the traditional way. Today it's probably not even very hard.

- Even an expensive team of consultants could devise a trust-based or work-based protocol and shepherd it through the IETF for less than one tenth the annual cost for a single ISP.

Given the above, the reason that the people who are most financially hurt by the spam problem have not done anything about it from a protocol level is either that they are financially stupid or that their research into the solutions didn't result in a solution that would cost them more. I believe it is the latter.

Based on what I've seen here people are almost eager to pronounce the spam problem unsolvable. I think that means the problem scope is defined too narrow. Using current SMTP, we can't stop spam. One ISP or a small group of them can't change SMTP. Ergo, the problem is unsolvable. But the IETF _can_ create new protocols and does so as a matter of routine. A good number of them are even deployed.

So I'll repeat myself: let's have an anti-spam BOF and hopefully and anti-spam wg. First order of business for this wg: analyze the spam problem and then see if mechanisms can be found to reduce the amount of spam by 1 - 2 orders of magnitude. After that, we can decide if it's worth it to write a protocol and try to have it deployed.