ietf
[Top] [All Lists]

Re: Mentoring

2013-03-14 07:54:29
(removing the separate copy to the IESG -- ADs who are
interested can presumably follow this thread)

--On Thursday, 14 March, 2013 07:23 -0500 Mary Barnes
<mary(_dot_)ietf(_dot_)barnes(_at_)gmail(_dot_)com> wrote:

On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 10:23 PM, John C Klensin
<john-ietf(_at_)jck(_dot_)com> wrote:
...
(1) I've found the Newcomer's Meet-and-Greet very useful in
finding newcomers I want to keep and eye on and try to help
move along and my personal instincts are to go for diversity
in those decisions.  But those sessions are open only to WG
Chairs and IAB and IESG members --people who tend to be among
the more overextended in terms of schedules-- in addition to
...

[MB]  What I find interesting is that there was 200+
newcomers, but I certainly didn't find that many at the meet
and greet.  I have to wonder whether this doesn't have to do
with the overlap between Sunday tutorials and this event.  I
think that needs to be fixed.

Agreed, but see below.

 Another comment about the meet
and greet is that I see far more WG chairs chatting with one
another as opposed to newcomers.

I think that is at least partially due to its being the first
time the WG Chairs and their ADs get to see each other during
the week, so it becomes an opportunity to grab each other "for a
minute" and synchronize.  Rethinking the timing/scheduling would
help there too.   While it would disrupt enough other things to
need careful thought, it might be that we should just throw the
newcomers into the main reception and then do a short
meet/greet/intro after that.  Probably others have better ideas.

 While I find that there is
rarely new comers to RAI area, just welcoming these folks is
really important independent of technical area of interest.  I
also try to find the WG chairs that are in that area.  I
regularly talk to at least 10 newcomers - and do chide some of
you all that are not chatting with newcomers ;) I can't
imagine as a newcomer approaching a group of WG chairs to
introduce myself.  The chairs should be actively seeking out
newcomers at these event.

Concur.
 
One question I have is whether there isn't a list for
newcomers to ask questions that some of us can be on to help
them before they get to the meeting?  It is incredibly rare
for a newcomer to ask questions on the IETF discussion.

I think that a list on which newcomers could introduce
themselves a bit as well as asking questions would be helpful.
I think doing some mentor-newcomer matching before the meeting
(as ISOC does) would be very useful and newcomer introductions
and people approaching them would facilitate that, maybe without
needing a "process".  

Also, it might help to setup a mentoring group and related
mailing list and perhaps a wiki where folks that are willing
to be mentors put their names and areas of focus and
expertise.  This could be helpful to both newcomers and folks
that are interested in learning about new areas.   [/MB]

Qualified "yes".  I'm somewhat afraid of setting up more
processes that, even if only by the time involved, tends to
isolate either newcomers or would-be mentors from other IETF
efforts.  It might also encourage some IETF participants to say
"there is a nice list of people willing to help, and they are
all organized, so I don't have to take responsibility".   I
believe that these efforts will succeed only if almost all of us
take responsibility.  Even a list on which newcomers can ask
questions can be a problem unless we have good ideas about the
weaning process.   I'm not against a list and wiki, just feeling
that we should understand the possible risks and be prepared to
deal with them.

FWIW, I find that most of my more effective mentoring (measured
in terms of later productivity of people in the IETF) has
occurred when I spot someone who appears capable and energetic
but is off-course and step in with private notes and offers.
That may be just a matter of style and certainly discriminates
against those who, for whatever reason, don't speak up.  For the
latter, I find the meet-and-greet helpful, but it has its own
problems as you point out.

Two other suggestions along the same line:

(1) The "smiley faces" are probably a good idea, but, IMO, very
badly executed, starting with handing them to the most busy
people and having no obvious way for people who are less busy
and might be more accessible to get one.  We are also getting
close to terminal badge-clutter overload -- I can't keep track
any longer and would assume the typical newcomer would be in
"eyes glazed over" status.  Worse, to someone new to the
community, those decoration can start to look like admission
symbols for various cabals from which they are excluded.  If we
have to use badge decorations, I'd like to see a reference card
that would fit in the badge holder available at registration and
the community treating putting anything on a badge that isn't
shown on the reference card as a antisocial act. Happy to
discuss that offline with anyone responsible.

(2) Our "newcomers" model doesn't distinguish likely long-term
participants from tourists.  I think we should be welcoming to
the tourists but, in terms of, e.g., scarce mentoring resources,
spending time on them is a bad optimization.  In addition
"newcomer" is really not a one-shot thing.  I don't know how to
identify and create a ribbon distinction between "newcomer and
possible long-term participant" and "tourist" and it is probably
impractical, but a ribbon in a different color for second-time
attendees might be helpful.  

As was said last night, if someone wearing a "newcomer" badge
seems to be either lost or isolated, approaching them is usually
A Good Thing.  And that principle should apply for two or three
meetings, not just one.
  
best,
   john

<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>