Re: Remote participants, newcomers, and tutorials

On 28/07/2013 00:23, Dave Crocker wrote:
> On 7/27/2013 7:17 AM, Jari Arkko wrote:
> > > > "newcomers who attend Working Group meetings are encouraged to
> > > > observe and absorb whatever material they can, but should not
> > > > interfere with the ongoing process of the group"
> ...
> > > > The first quote might discourage newcomers from participating.  I
> > > > suggest discussing about the two quotes during the orientation as
> > > > they could be misunderstood.
> ...
> > But the first one is just plain wrong. Is this from RFC 3184? Many of
> > the first time IETFers are here for a reason, are well-versed in the
> > technology in question, and very much able to provide suggestions to
> > the WG.
>
> It's not wrong.
>
> It's badly worded, possibly bordering on rudeness.  It certainly lacks
> context.  And it probably doesn't apply to BOFs.  But it's not wrong.
It reads rudely when taken out of context. But try reading the whole
paragraph in RFC 3184:

      IETF participants who attend Working Group meetings read the
      relevant Internet-Drafts, RFCs, and e-mail archives beforehand, in
      order to familiarize themselves with the technology under
      discussion.  This may represent a challenge for newcomers, as e-
      mail archives can be difficult to locate and search, and it may
      not be easy to trace the history of longstanding Working Group
      debates.  With that in mind, newcomers who attend Working Group
      meetings are encouraged to observe and absorb whatever material
      they can, but should not interfere with the ongoing process of the
      group.  Working Group meetings run on a very limited time
      schedule, and are not intended for the education of individuals.
      The work of the group will continue on the mailing list, and many
      questions would be better expressed on the list in the months that
      follow.

Exactly. My experience back when I was a newcomer was that it was
easy enough to ask beginner's questions after the meeting, and obviously
wrong to do so during the session. This remains true years later, if I
drop into a WG that I'm not familiar with.

    Brian