Re: IETF 78 Annoucement
2009-05-26 10:54:05
Hi, Antoin,
This was quite tranquilizing. Thank you for posting.
I haven't been an adventurous traveler in Europe, but did have a nice
day-long train trip from Amsterdam (SHIM6 interim) to Paris (Softwires
interim) a couple of years ago, and that was OK. So I think there's hope.
On the other hand, my most adventurous IETF was the Dallas IETF And
Watersports Event, and that was about 40 miles from my house, so I bet the
biggest issue for IETF 78 turns out to be a surprise, too!
Spencer
However, the Netherlands only has a single airport with decent
connections and ground transportation. For those of us traveling to
IETF-78 from within Europe it's still doable (probably have to
sacrifice the friday afternoon sessions, though) but I'm glad I don't
have to fly in from the US west coast or Asia.
First to respond to Iljitsch comments of more plausible venues.
The major issue here in NL are Hotels, not conference centers.
That's because conference attendees usually don't stay over in NL, but go
home to wife and kids in this densely populated country. The trip home is
on average about an hour from any congress location.
The largest hotel in NL is yet to be build, and has a capacity of 500
rooms. All other hotels are (much) smaller, and they usually are for
tourists.
There are cities that have a joint hotel capacity for an IETF, but if you
don't want to end up in Youth hostels, Budget Hotels or sloppy Airport
hotels with no facilities at all in the hotel or neighborhood, there are 3
places left. So Utrecht and Rotterdam are not viable options due to
spreading out over too many and too uncomfortable hotels.
Some of us don't mind about hotel quality, but other frequent travelers
do. An IETF should provide capacity for both.
Maastricht wouldn't have been my first choice due to the absence of an
International airport, but I'm sure the location was chosen because of
other logistics that could not be met in Amsterdam or The Hague.
You might also have noticed that there are multiple sponsors for this
meeting, none of them being major international corporations.
None of these sponsors could carry the sponsoring budget all by
themselves, but they all wanted to contribute to make your cost less.
That might also explain the choice of the venue, as there are sponsors
from NL, BE and DE.
If you don't want sponsors like that anymore, and only choose large
multinationals that don't care about location of the meeting, fine. You'll
have less sponsors to choose from, and end up in the same places like
Minneapolis every time.
And perhaps it's time to tranquilize some people.
I live in the south of the Netherlands, and I have to make the journey
to/from Amsterdam/Brussels/Paris/Frankfurt airport on EVERY IETF or other
trip that involves flying.
And I travel 100 km to work every day, which takes me less time than to
get from an Amsterdam outskirt to Amsterdam center, so reach ability is
something else than proximity.
There used to be scheduled domestic flights between Amsterdam Schiphol
Airport and other Dutch airports like Maastricht-Aachen Airport, but they
abolished them a number of years ago because the train between those
airports was faster, cheaper, more frequent, more economical and more
efficient than a flight.
I'll make sure there will be a good guide in due time.
But to give you some of my experiences in advance:
Train travel is the most used and comfortable way to reach an airport in
Western Europe.
I find a taxi ride from any airport anywhere in the world more adventurous
and risky than a train from Schiphol in the Netherlands.
Trains are clean, comfortable and run on schedule here.
You'll also find that this is more true on the Amsterdam-Maastricht
intercity line than on local trains near Amsterdam/The Hague/Rotterdam.
Your figure of 80% trains that run on time is only because we consider a
train late when it's 1 minute overdue, even when the next train is
scheduled 15 minutes later.
By that definition, a taxi ride during rush hour is less predictable, and
will never run on time.
The 4 major International airports for Maastricht are Amsterdam, Brussels,
Paris and Frankfurt.
Amsterdam Schiphol airport.
This is probably your best choice.
The train journey to Maastricht will take you 2:34 on weekdays, 2:50 in
the weekends and runs every half hour between 5:02 and 22:14.
It involves 1 stopover in either Utrecht, 's-Hertogenbosch or Eindhoven,
so there is enough choice and no reason for panic:
Schiphol--Utrecht--'s-Hertogenbosch--Eindhoven
Utrecht--'s-Hertogenbosch--Eindhoven--Maastricht
Maastricht is an end station, so no reason to panic getting off. Everybody
leaves the train in Maastricht, you will not miss your stop.
Brussels airport
Also a good choice, but with less international flights. If your airline
does do Brussels, it's an excellent choice.
The train journey to Maastricht will take you 1:46 or 1:58 and runs every
hour between 5:50 and 21:50.
It involves 1 stopover in Brussels:
Bruxelles-Nat.-Aéroport-- Brussel Noord/Bruxelles Nord
Brussel Noord/Bruxelles Nord--Maastricht
Paris Charles de Gaulle airport
Is a reasonable alternative if your airline doesn't do Amsterdam or
Brussels.
The train journey to Maastricht will take you approx 3,5 hours, and
includes 2 stopovers.
First from Paris CDG to Paris Nord by RER, then take the TGV to Brussels,
and then to Maastricht:
Aeroport Charles de Gaulle 1--Paris Nord
Paris Nord-- Bruxelles-Sud/Midi
Bruxelles-Sud/Midi--Maastricht
Frankfurt airport
Is probably your worst choice.
Although there are lots of international flights, the train connection to
Maastricht is poor.
There is a 1 stopover train via Utrecht which takes 5:21 and a 3 stopover
journey that takes 4:25
So all things considered, I think taking a train is faster and more
comfortable than having to change to a connecting flight to get anywhere
that is not one of the major International hubs.
Sit back and relax, and consider it part of the journey, not just the
final mile.
For more information (in English) on the trains and schedules, check out:
http://www.ns.nl/cs/Satellite/travellers
(It includes schedules from Brussels/Paris/Frankfurt even though that's
not in the Netherlands)
It even has manuals on how to buy a ticket from vending machines.
Furthermore. Maastricht is a compact, nice and ancient city, with lots of
good restaurants and places to socialize.
It's also nice for the IETF crowd to find that the Netherlands is bigger
than just Amsterdam, and atmosphere can be different with little space in
between.
Though the IETF crowd won't fit into one Hotel, most of the hotels will be
in the proximity of the city center.
With the conference center at the edge of the city, I assume there will be
shuttles accommodating the people that don't want to walk.
Not ideal, but just as San Diego and Dallas, it'll work out.
Hotels will be small, with rooms smaller and less luxurious than average
massive US hotels, but food will no doubt be better and atmosphere less
intimidating.
That's all the information I have right now, I'm sure more will follow.
I'm looking forward seeing you all in Maastricht next year.
Antoin Verschuren
Technical Policy Advisor
SIDN
Utrechtseweg 310
PO Box 5022
6802 EA Arnhem
The Netherlands
T +31 26 3525500
F +31 26 3525505
M +31 6 23368970
E antoin(_dot_)verschuren(_at_)sidn(_dot_)nl
W http://www.sidn.nl/
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- Re: IETF 78 Annoucement, (continued)
- Re: IETF 78 Annoucement, Douglas Otis
- Re: IETF 78 Annoucement, Michael StJohns
- Re: IETF 78 Annoucement, Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: IETF 78 Annoucement, Ole Jacobsen
- Re: IETF 78 Annoucement, Iljitsch van Beijnum
- RE: IETF 78 Annoucement, BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A, ATTLABS
- Re: IETF 78 Annoucement, Donald Eastlake
- Re: IETF 78 Annoucement, Ole Jacobsen
- Re: IETF 78 Annoucement, Joel M. Halpern
- RE: IETF 78 Annoucement, Antoin Verschuren
- Re: IETF 78 Annoucement,
Spencer Dawkins <=
- RE: IETF 78 Annoucement, Ole Jacobsen
- RE: IETF 78 Annoucement, Antoin Verschuren
- Re: IETF 78 Annoucement, David Kessens
- Re: IETF 78 Annoucement, Dean Willis
- Re: IETF 78 Annoucement, Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Message not available
- Re: IETF 78 Annoucement, Ole Jacobsen
- Re: IETF 78 Annoucement, Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Message not available
- Re: IETF 78 Annoucement, John C Klensin
- Re: IETF 78 Annoucement, David A. Bryan
- Re: IETF 78 Annoucement, Ole Jacobsen
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