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RE: Request for community guidance on issue concerning afuture meeting of the IETF

2009-09-21 11:01:32
Hi,

Here are my impressions regarding the areas of concern you raise.
 
(1) The law and associated hotel rule Marshall quoted could be 
violated by what may appear to IETF participants as technical 
discussion.  For example, the manipulation/censorship of Internet 
traffic by or under orders of the Chinese government is well known. 
If this were to be mentioned or discussed during the IETF, perhaps
in 
the context of encryption, tunneling, web proxy, DNS, or some other 
technical area, we could run be violating the law and hence the
rule.

I have worked for a subsidirary of Huawei, and now work for
HuaWeiSymantec (a joint venture startup) and visit Beijing once or
twice a year. 
I don't know if the venues under consideration are in Beijing, but I
assume that is fairly likely.
These opinions are my own and do not in any way represent the opinions
of Huawei or HuaweiSymantec.

I have personal concerns about censorship and manipulation of Internet
traffic. I don't have anything to hide, and do not regularly post
views I expect the Chinese government might find offensive, so it does
not impact me directly, but it does impact me indirectly.

I had some difficulty reaching some web sites, although they were
mostly news websites that might discuss politically-sensitive topical
issues. I do not remember having difficulty reaching any websites
critical to my IETF work.

The HQ of HuaweiSymantec is in Hong Kong, and my boss who lives there
tells me that HK is not subject to the censorship on the China
mainland. So maybe meeting in Hong Kong would allow us to meet in
China, without the censorship. (But I personally found HK very
expensive compared to mainland China)
 
I doubt the Chinese government, or the hotel, is likely to interfere
in our technical discussions. Some lively plenary discussions about
government-regulation impact on Internet technologies, such as the net
neutrality discussion in the Washington meeting and the encryption
regulations discussion we had in Danvers, might make our Chinese
participants and our host uncomfortable.

I would be a bit cautious about political discussions in public venues
outside the official meeting, e.g., over dinner or in bar BOFs.
"Bush-bashing" and other disrepect for our leaders is considered great
sport in Western countries; In China, for cultural reasons based on a
very long history going back at least to Confucious, this type of
disrespect for one's leaders is apparently considered very poor
manners. I am pretty sure that disrespect for their leaders would be
very very poor manners. The locals are much more likely to consider
you a barbarian than to want to engage in such discussions of their
leaders.


(2) This is a very personal concern, but my experience with China is

that it is among the worst places to try and avoid tobacco smoke.

I have not found avoiding smoke in China much worse than in Europe. I
find it much easier to avoid smoke in US cities.


(3) Similarly to (2), my experience in Bejing has been that the air 
is exceptionally polluted.  Hence, I'd be concerned for those IETF 
members who would find this makes participation difficult.

Auto emission pollution in Beijing is a real problem. If you have any
respiratory problems, I recommend you avoid heavy-traffic areas of
Beijing. 

This problem is mostly an outdoor problem, not an indoor problem. You
can mitigate the pollution by wearing surgical masks when outside
(which is fairly common in Beijing). I assume the air handling systems
in a conference center and major international hotels would mitigate
this while indoors.

I think the level of poluution in Beijing is a valid concern when
evaluating venues.

David Harrington
dbharrington(_at_)comcast(_dot_)net
ietfdbh(_at_)comcast(_dot_)net
dharrington(_at_)huawei(_dot_)com


-- 
Randall Gellens
Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for 
myself only
-------------- Randomly selected tag: ---------------
The solution to a problem changes the nature of the problem.


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