RE: URGENT: Community Position on SenderID

On Fri, 2004-11-26 at 13:43 +0100, Julian Mehnle wrote:

> > How many users do you have?  Do they get angry when they don't get mail?
> About 20 -- so, no, I'm not a big ESP.  And, no, they do _not_ get angry
> when they don't get mail if it happens due to the anti-abuse measures I
> take.  They actually trust in my anti-abuse strategy as that is one of the
> main features of the service I offer them.
You've got 20 of the most enjoyable users on earth.

> They are also able to look up what messages directed to them have been
> rejected by the mail server:
>
>   http://julian.io.link-m.de/misc/rejected-messages
>   (anonymized sample)
>
> Moreover, my users are able to white-list their forwarders from SPF
> checking, which eliminates the largest part of SPF false positives.  So
> what's your point?
And they are intelligent too.

> > All the wrong people are giving all the wrong advice.  What I find
> > troubling most are that the people giving advice in here for the most
> > part have absolutely no experience from a decently sized ISP's
> > perspective, or anyone with customers.  I'm not pointing the finger
> > directly at you, since I do not know the scope of your employment nor
> > your network, but I would like to hear.
> Of course you are pointing the finger directly at me, why else would you
> have told me something like "All the wrong people are giving all the wrong
> advice"?
>
> I'm not willing to accept the notion that anyone who does not have at
> least a thousand users belongs to "the wrong people" and is automatically
> "giving all the wrong advice".  I know the big corporations are calling
> the shots these days, but that doesn't mean everyone else's point of view
> is invalid.
Then you are being a tad ignorant.

> Especially when non-fundamentalist people like me actually _do_ the right
> thing.  Or what part of my setup don't you like?
>
> This "I answer to more users than you, so I am right" attitude stinks.
But think about it.  In my particular case, I represent 30,000
mailboxes.  You represent 20.  Who's opinion as to the value of
publishing '-all' do you think carries more weight?  Mine does, hands
down every time.  This is how life works.  And just as if you were to
compare my measly 30,000 mailboxes to AOL's 90 million mail boxes, who
takes the cake there?  I think someone with that many mail boxes has a
legitimate opinion.  That doesn't mean that everything spewing forth
from my mouth is gospel or enjoyable, but I think you get my point.

Just because you don't like the inferred meaning of my statement,
doesn't mean you have to go and and get all personally offended on this
list.  Remove the emotional reading of my message, and view it from a
purely technical standpoint and its probably a lot more palatable.  In
all fairness, you with 20 users, recommending that people should publish
-all is like little boy in a kiddie's pool recommending to the Captain
of the Titanic that its smooth sailing on all the 7 seas and he should
leave port post haste. 

Cheers,

James

-- 
James Couzens,
Programmer
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http://libspf.org -- ANSI C Sender Policy Framework library
http://libsrs.org -- ANSI C Sender Rewriting Scheme library
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