Dear Brian, Olaf;
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 6:30 PM, Brian E Carpenter <
brian(_dot_)e(_dot_)carpenter(_at_)gmail(_dot_)com> wrote:
On 2011-09-19 20:05, Olaf Kolkman wrote:
<snip>
Also, the new section 2.3, which is incorrectly titled but presumably
is intended to be "IETF Trust membership" seems to me to be inconsistent
with the Trust Agreement. The Trust Agreement states that the Eligible
Persons
(to become Trustees) are each "a then-current member of the IAOC, duly
appointed
and in good standing in accordance with the procedures of the IAOC
established
pursuant to IETF document BCP 101 [as amended]". That doesn't exclude
the
non-voting members of the IAOC, which is why the IAD is already a
Trustee.
To change this, the Trust would have to change the Trust Agreement. To
be clear,
I'm not saying this can't be done, but it can't be ignored either.
Yes, it is incorrectly titled.
As far as I understand the trust agreement the voting members and the IAD
are members of the trust. If the 'chairs' are non-voting members of the IAOC
then the idea is that they would not be trustees and a modification of the
trust agreement is not needed. That can be clarified.
If the chairs should be trustees (are you arguing that?) then I agree, a
trust agreement modification is needed.
The Trust Agreement and *only* the Trust Agreement defines who
is a Trustee. At the moment it says that members of the IAOC
under BCP 101 are Trustees, without any qualification such as
"voting".
The Trust Agreement is at
http://iaoc.ietf.org/docs/IETF-Trust-Agreement-Executed-12-15-05.pdf
It says (Section 3.1) that "Eligible persons" are those IAOC members
"duly appointed and in good standing in accordance with the procedures of
the IAOC established pursuant to IETF document BCP 101, RFC 4071 (April
2005), and any duly approved successor documents, updates, or amendments
thereto."
The draft says
This document updates BCP101 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp101>
([RFC4071 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4071>] and [RFC4371
<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4371>]).
Assuming it goes forward, it would thus eventually become an update or
amendment to BCP101, and so by just changing who the IAOC members are, and
thus who the Trustees are, would NOT IMO require a change to the Trust
Agreement. It would be automatic.
All Trustees are currently voting trustees. I would note that the ISOC Board
of Trustees has at least one non-voting Trustee, and the Trust Amendment
could in theory be modified in a similar fashion. (Modifying the TA can now
be done with a majority vote of the Trustees currently in office.)
However, the Trust Agreement (TA) is a legal document. I would not underrate
the difficulty (and legal expense) of modifying it, and of not introducing
bugs while modifying it. Even though the Trustees _can_ now do this, I would
not actually do it if avoidable, and I think that it is in this case.
Note that the Trust Agreement says almost nothing about meetings. The Trust
Administrative Procedures (TAP) could easily be modified to allow for
permanent Ex-Officio liaisons, and the TAP is not a legal document of the
same standing as the TA.
So, what I would recommend is that
- Olaf's draft create new IAOC members with full powers, as it currently
does. These would, assuming the draft progresses, automatically become
Trustees, without any modification of the Trust Agreement.
- Olaf's wording be changed to make the IAB Chair, IETF Chair and ISOC CEO
into ex-officio and non-voting Liaisons to the IAOC and the Trust.
- The TAP then be modified to recognize the status of these new ex-officio
and non-voting Liaisons. These Liaisons are not IAOC members, thus not
Trustees.
With this procedure, I see no reason to modify the Trust Agreement.
Regards
Marshall
So if we make the I* Chairs non-voting members of
the IAOC by formally updating BCP 101, the I* Chairs would
remain as Trustees. Since that is (in my experience) a large
part of an IAOC member's time commitment, the problem you're
trying to solve would not be solved, IMHO, unless the Trust
amended the Trust Agreement too. That's all I wanted to point out.
Brian
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