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Re: privacy is a feature (Re: [Asrg] desirable characteristics of source tracking)

2003-03-05 14:30:32
Dude:

Anonymous users and spammers are not the same group.

A debate about the rights and wrongs of being allowed to send
anonymous mail is a debate and technology for another group.

My comment is that I don't want to see unintended fall-outs from
anti-spam efforts.  Banning anonymous mail, making anonymous mail less
reliable are very clearly and unequivocally fall outs.

How do you know "Adam Back" is not a pseudonym?  You have no way to
know, I haven't signed my mail, and I don't want any anti-spam measure
to force me to sign it, because it is not in my personal interests to
sign general emails I send.  Email has no current expecation of
identification.  You are proposing a change to defacto rights against
users interests.


I completely disagree with your comments about the right to retain
privacy, and right to avoid receiving anonmous communications -- you
have no current right in that regard for email, and introducing one
takes a way more freedoms than it introduces.  

In general I find many of your ideas expressed on this list
heavy-handed and ignorant of other peoples rights and functionalities.
I suggest you read and digest Brad's principles page I posted in a
previous list.

I happen to think the way email privacy and anonymity works at present
is good, and if anything needs improving rather than removing.  I
think your ideas to reduce privacy are very badly damaging to email
freedoms.

You can't just make pronouncements and presume your view is the only
correct one.  Consider there are people who disagree; for them you are
proposing to remove freedoms, functionality and reliability.  You say
"good - that slows spam" or "good - I don't want to recieve anonymous
mails".  But you _are_ proposing to damange existing functionality and
freedoms.

Adam

On Wed, Mar 05, 2003 at 10:14:43PM +0100, Hadmut Danisch wrote:
On Wed, Mar 05, 2003 at 08:30:57PM +0000, Adam Back wrote:

I'd sooner keep identity out of email receipt as far as anti-spam is
concerned as it erodes these current freedoms to be anonymous and
pseudonymous to varying degrees.


Sending anonymous mail is not a right or freedom of the sender.
That view is as common as wrong. Anonymous mail is a violation
of the freedom of the recipient. 

Freedom always has to end where other people's freedom starts. 
Freedom doesn't include violation of someone else's freedom.



Having an option to not receive anonymous mail for anti-spam motivated
is from this perspective undersirable in that it makes anonymous users
second class citizens -- their email will be likely discarded.

Pure Nonsense. 

Nobody can be required to pay time and money for providing 
e-mail infrastructure designed to be vulnerable just to 
make anonymous senders not feel as second class citizens.
Your demanding everybody to be open for denial of service attacks
and fraud. 

In the same way you could demand to immediately stop this
working/research group, because spammers could feel as being
"second class citizens".

Why do I have to pay time and money to allow others to 
stay anonymous? 

Hadmut
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